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- rim 9
Change finally comes to RIM
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/at-research-in-motion-a-new-ceo-vows-to-silence-the-doomsayers/article2310968/
Balsille and Lazaridis out, Heinz in -
Yep.
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Long over due, those 2 had missed product launch after missed product launch and really missed what the smart phone market was looking for
Hopefully their new QNX blackberries and new playbook update increase sales -
Ketchup!
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I for one welcome our new tomatotonian overlords.
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Cyberjedi said: A fine German man, what could possibly go wrong
well if you ask me, it's pretty clean. what could go wrong is that Mike and Jim keep running the company through their positions on the board of directors and Heins is just a front man for them.
Personally I think this "change" was just opening things up for an impending sale. -
Anybody know anything about this dude that ain't in his bio? What's his dealio?
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Anyone know if a sale to MS is even possible? I know the financial position of RIM isn't weak and have heard the numbers, but for me it makes sense for Windows Mobile to be BB and go after the business sector in full force. Seems like MS keeps going after personal mobile, and keep failing.
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IMHO a sale to MS does make some sense. Integrate BES with exchange more natively and own the business sector. The concern here is with windows 8 going to the way of iOS, would MS kill off the BBos / BB10. If so I assume that would be a deal breaker.
Also there are canadian business ownership laws to consider. Kind of the same situation Wind ran into. There needs to be a certain percentage of canadian ownership.
Lot of ways this could shake out, but unless heins has some way to get BB10 out in less than 3 months, and have it be perfect, selling the company seems like the only thing that makes sense.
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Might be a prudent move for RIM to get out of the handheld sector, and move into software and infrastructure. BES software for iOS, WinMo, and Android? Unified messaging service amongst your company's handhelds? That would be worth a pretty penny.
After all, IBM ditched their hardware business and they are still a strong force in the business sector. -
swift: blackberry server fusion is the name of that...its already in the works
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PlatooN said: Personally I think this "change" was just opening things up for an impending sale.
It's the opposite. It's a pretty clear sign given the changes to the board and the C level that we're not getting sold. If that were the purpose, they wouldn't have promoted from inside, they would have brought in a CEO that's good at that. -
PlatooN said: Also there are canadian business ownership laws to consider. Kind of the same situation Wind ran into. There needs to be a certain percentage of canadian
ownership.
I'm by no means certain, but I believe that had to do specifically with the telecom marketplace. -
phro said: I'm by no means certain, but I believe that had to do specifically with the telecom marketplace.
you don't consider rim part of the telecom space?? bb network sir -
epiphani said: It's the opposite. It's a pretty clear sign given the changes to the board and the C level that we're not getting sold. If that were the purpose, they wouldn't have promoted from inside, they would have brought in a CEO that's good at that.
disagree. Certainly you would have more inside info than I do ... but my perception of whats happened is this.
Few "talks" happened with a few potential buyers. Every one rejected the notion of buying a company with Mike and Jim attached. Board see's that and .. moves them out of the way. Heins is just the fall guy epi.
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The problems we're having are basically in follow-through. We have a product plan, and a timeline. We have boatloads of cash, are growing like crazy outside North America, and are still very profitable.
People keep talking about RIM's decline, when we added 30% more subscribers in the last 12 months. We're in the middle of switching our entire base platform around, and we're taking on the chin for a few quarters of low growth. Low GROWTH. Not decline. Not loss. Low growth.
This was a good way it was put recently: the USA has 7% of the mobile market and 80% of the opinion. -
Yes, RIM is exploding in asia-pac and europe. Sure, its taking a huge hit in opinion in NA, but with the growth it has overseas it is not in as much trouble as people would have you believe. Its a large organization with cash reserves and continuing to grow, while trying to do a massive platform shift. I agree with Epip, I don't think they brought in Heinz to market as a sale. To do that, they would have taken both Mike and Jim off the BOD as well.
My first impression of Heinz was an especially good one when I saw him doing a live interview with our local CTV news team last night. For someone in that position the day of making a major corporate change to take the time to do an interview with a local news team was a brilliant PR move to bolster RIMs local perception. I'm guessing he was getting requests from much larger news organizations, and he still took the time to make sure that the local news was taken care of, which to me was very impressive and a fantastic thing to do. -
epi. .. RIM is publicly traded (as you know). All the numbers in the world don't matter if your public perception is bad. Right now ... public perception is BAD
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PlatooN said: public perception is BAD
Certainly not arguing there - but at the end of the day, you don't sell a financially sound company based on perception. That's just bad business. -
On the perception front, I have a fairly decent theory that there's a pretty serious effort going on to marginalize RIM. In the past, the crackberry editor was approached and offered $5000 to post an article with his name on it that someone else wrote. That article was VERY critical of RIM.
Now, take a look at this article:
http://www.bgr.com/2012/01/23/research-without-motion-old-guys-replaced-by-new-old-guy/
A few things of note:
1- This article was posted less than 14 hours after the announcement, on Monday at 11am. Surprisingly in-depth, critical article for such a short period of time. Did he stay up all night on Sunday to write it?
2- The picture on that article shows a shot of the new CEO... with a photoshopped in hand holding a 7200 monochrome device from 2004.
3- The article doesn't say a single positive thing, dismisses BB10 as irrelevant, late, useless, and makes a wonderful backhanded comment about how we make "great plastic keyboards". -
Ah yeah I guess that would count, I keep forgetting about that madness.PlatooN said: you don't consider rim part of the telecom space?? bb network sir
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epiphani said: the USA has 7% of the mobile market and 80% of the opinion.
I lol'd! -
Somone finally released an RDP client for the playbook :)
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epiphani said:
Certainly not arguing there - but at the end of the day, you don't sell a financially sound company based on perception. That's just bad business.
disagree again. Perception is reality, weather it matches reality or not. This is EXACTLY the time to sell the company, while it's still worth something, and still relevant. Sorry Aaron, you know I love RIM's stuff, and just recently picked up a 9790, however the writing is on the wall here.
As for the article thing. One of the partners in my company knew about this tuesday of last week. There was lots of time for the media to have found out and been prepared.
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i don't see ownership selling if they believe their company is worth more than the market believes. this is exactly the case of perception when you don't sell. at a p/e around 3.5 you don't really see a tech company stock getting much lower, especially with such low liabilities. I think they won't see here, but may after a potential rebound when perceived value and actual value get more aligned
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epiphani said: "great plastic keyboards"
I loved the keyboard on my 7290......best keyboard ever on a BB.
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Cyberjedi said: I loved the keyboard on my 7290......best keyboard ever on a BB.
Tried a 9900 yet? :) I loves mine. -
9900 has an amazing keyboard
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I love my iPhone keyboard currently......but the 7290 will always be my fave.
Might consider a BB again when the BBX devices are ready. Might even be eligible for an upgrade by then too -
PlatooN said: he concern here is with windows 8 going to the way of iOS, would MS kill off the BBos / BB10.
Small point but I believe Windows 8 is directed at desktops and non-phone mobile devices (ie tablets).
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Watching Platoon try and make argument about what RIM is doing as a business and that we're for sale is funny, reminds me of a conversation I heard my 4 year old have about what makes the moon so shiny. :P
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Gif said: Watching Platoon try and make argument about what RIM is doing as a business and that we're for sale is funny, reminds me of a conversation I heard my 4 year old have about what makes the moon so shiny. :P
thanks gif ... that's quite kind of you.
also quite telling that you don't have any kind of counter argument, just resorted to trying to insult me like it's fucking grade 5.
you'll also note, that in all my posts i point out this is MY OPINION, and I THINK, this is what's going to happen.
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Mr.Clark said: Small point but I believe Windows 8 is directed at desktops and non-phone mobile devices (ie tablets).
yep.
It also adds touchscreen support, an app store, and file sync to windows mobile (which will also see a refresh early 2013 i hear). It all screams phone integration with windows mobile, extending on their recent marketing of "it all starts with a windows pc".
I don't see how QNX's os fit's into that.
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AND for anyone wondering what perception can do .. Where was apple in 2001?????
Apple’s revenue, the past two quarters: $74.6-billion.
Research In Motion Ltd.’s revenue since the start of 2001: $74.06-billion (to end of third quarter, 2011).
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When THE FUCK did Platoon become all reasonable and mature sounding online?
When did he become a supporter or reasonable debate on THESE forums?
What year is it damn it?
What bizzaro dimension have I entered into without realizing it?
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The comment is really to any and all of us trying to sound like we know what the fuck we're talking about when it comes to a Mulit Billion dollar company and what is most likely a multi trillion dollar business.
I do not comment, because in the grand scheme of things I do not know shit, I do not have any education in the matter, nor do I have any experience in investing money at any large magnitudes. I just think its cute that you all believe you do. Now if we want to talk about games, women, and or Star Trek/Star wars, I'm game. :P -
*edited*
I can't very well sass Gif after I gave him shit about sassing me.
Dude: it's all opinion, and recently things that are fun to have an opinion on have moved away from games and star*.*, and into business, markets, and the economy, at least for me. Also (and you can verify this with Shoemaker) with the exception of some bad info I got on apple the other day, my track record for stock predictions is pretty stellar.
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To be fair, 25% of that is in products/markets that RIM is not in. I know that doesn't mean a lot, but that comparison is much like saying in the early part of the century, Apple should have been sold to Microsoft because Microsoft's market share was so much higher.
I don't think anyone is arguing that apple makes fantastic products and that they are a giant in the eyes of the consumer market.
I ask the question, why should RIM sell when they're still a growing company? Perception is bad in North America, but very strong in Asia/Pac. Should a company like Motorola, who to my knowledge has historically had good perception in Europe but not NA, also sell?
One of the big reasons Apple's figures look so much better is because the profit margin on their products is incredible. In 2011, they were capturing over 50% of the operating profit while having less than a 5% market share. Those are insane figures, and you can take almost any handheld device maker and they'll look like shit up against that (http://allthingsd.com/20111104/apple-headed-for-60-percent-of-handset-industry-operating-profits/).
RIM's perception in north america right now is low, but so was Apple's 10-15 years ago. RIM as a business is sound, producing profits and continuing to grow in an evolving market overseas. Analysts seem to be giving predictions made in part on the past figures RIM has had, which they will not live up to in the current market.... but by no means do I think they are dead. -
i know what im talking about and have experience with investing hundreds of millions of dollars
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Wade: i'd agree 100% with you if they had not hired from within. bringing in Jim and Mike's buddy Thorston, who immediately comes out and says there is no need for a seismic shift in thinking worries the shit out of investors.
The other thing to consider in your argument is that the "emerging world market" where rim is seeing growth, will eventually open up to all the phone makers like North America did ... then what is rim to do.
They are still making profit, but those profits are sinking. IN MY OPINION (hi gif) you either sell now, while there is value, or you change what you're doing to adapt.
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My comments are partly out of anger for those opinions, not just yours, but more of the ones on the internet, where some dude, who works for website X, posts an Opinion article about my company, and bashes it, cause they know that's what gives them hits. Like Epi said it there are people trying to marginalize RIM for what ever personal gains/reasons. Also what makes them an expert in any of this? and why are people so eager to follow the writings of some Internet Columnist.
It drives me crazy, I've poured my heart and soul into this company for the last 7+ years, and you're right, I mean we can't talk about the same old (games and shit) all the time, and you're entitled to your opinion. But when you attack RIM, just know you're attacking me, also know that I (along with a bunch of others), have substantially more visibility in to the happenings of this company than you do, and I'm no where near a C-level, so watching you speculate is cute, when you know so much less about our companies direction.
That being said, I'm done talking about this subject. Feel free to continue the discussion, and making your predictions, I'm staying out of them, as you dont deserve me lashing out on you. I'll keep collecting my cheque, and as long as my name is on it, and my pay is right, I could care less if it says RIM or something else. Also I still feel pretty stable about my job for the next little while.
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Yeah i hear what you're saying Gif. No one would want to hear doom and gloom about a company they have worked hard at for so long. I don't mean any of what i'm saying that way, please don't take any offense, there is NONE intended.
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Resorting back to the funny comment of 7% market share, 80% of the opinion brought a point to my mind.
Perception keeps getting thrown around here as the benchmark of what will happen. My question I pose, is where is your information coming from?
Living in North America, you are undoubtedly receiving NA intelligence.
Lets take this talk out of the theoretical and start sourcing our shit! Im sure someone can find an article in the Zimbabwe Times that says Rim is doing well? And perhaps equally easy to find an article from CousinFucking, Idaho that speaks woe to the Giant company.
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Turk said: Perception keeps getting thrown around here as the benchmark of what will happen. My question I pose, is where is your information coming from?
In my case, I work from the general opinion of my client base and peers. with SOME (but not much) weight given to media and "experts". It's hard to find anyone with anything good to say about RIM, even in KW anymore. With the noted exception of RIM employees ... even THEN some are pretty down.
for the record, I still use, and will continue to use my blackberry, and still swear by it as the best all around device for anyone who needs to use their device for business needs. Sadly business needs aren't everything anymore, and with the recent popularity of companies allowing bring your own device as a work device, apple and google will find their way more and more into that market space. Gif / Epi what would you say the ratio of BB to iphone is like these days at RIM. I know others there who tell me it's pretty 50/50 these days.
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PlatooN said: In my case, I work from the general opinion of my client base and peers. with SOME (but not much) weight given to media and "experts". It's hard to find anyone with anything good to say about RIM, even in KW anymore. With the noted exception of RIM employees ... even THEN some are pretty down.
I wrote some long rant in response to this, but it gave me a headache. The media is fucking us, and everyone is gleefully piling on. I can't wait until fall. -
The only people I see with iPhones around here are contractors and co-ops who owned it prior to working here. I'm sure there are folks that own iPhones or iPads, but I mean, if I worked at Sony, I might still own an Xbox. Different product for different needs for different people. There are plenty of people who work at both Apple and Google that own / use BlackBerry.
http://cdn.crackberry.com/files/kevin/eric-schmidt-rocking-blackberry.jpg
RIM as a company is fine. It's still adding millions of users a year, it's still very profitable, reporting "RIM basically OK when you look at it in a global sense" in the news doesn't sell papers.
And we all know that the stock market is not a barometer of reality.
Apple is playing a different game. Their approach is to produce a consumer-grade product which is a delivery vector for games and apps. Android is tool for advertising metrics. They have no concern to security, radio stack efficiency, battery life, and so on. The reality is that right now, people don't really care about these things either, but RIM is betting that they're going to in a few years.
None of this excuses the fact that goddamn Angry Birds took so long to come out for BlackBerry, though. That was just silly.
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MrChupon said: And we all know that the stock market is not a barometer of reality.
guh????
you live in a free market economy. The market means A LOT when it comes to financial reality. The population put's a value on your company and invests accordingly.
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The population puts a value on where they expect the stock to go, not where they expect the company to go. Yes, in theory these should be the same thing. In reality, the tail is often capable of wagging the dog. That fact is what enables self-fulfilling prophecies to take effect.
I'm not saying the stock market doesn't matter. Clearly it does. But stock prices are to some degree uncoupled from the reality of actual company performance. If this were false, Apple's stock would (and probably should) simply be a straight line going up-right. Pets.com wouldn't have made like 100 million dollars on their IPO despite having a laughably unfeasible business model.
Plus we're all just tired of hearing people citing the stock as a sign that clearly a sign we're incapable of making any money as a business and that we're doomed.
