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Star Wars - The Force Awakens (SPOILER THREAD)

edited December 2015 in General
THIS IS THE SPOILER THREAD

What did you think?

It was really .... heavy han'd'ed. In that it had a lot of Han Solo. That was great. He really is a great character and actor and really made the film.

I figured he would die, which is great for this film, but makes me worry for the next two. Like, it's a great, powerful moment. But Harrison Ford can't carry the next two films. He is hoping Mark Hamil can or something. I thought the actress playing Raye (sp?) and the actor playing Kylo-ren were pretty... vanilla/simple "young drama actor" like the people in the prequels. Maybe it's the characters and not the actors. Either way, that worries me, but I did like the guys playing the rebel pilot and Finn, though.

I'm glad Kylo has light and isn't one dimensional "bad". It reminds me of Vader.

What do you think will happen next?

Luke can't be the hero, so he will either die, turn to the dark-side, or remain in solitude. I am guessing the latter. I don't think they'd ever make him turn.

The question is who will the hero be? Raye or Ben Solo?

Comments

  • edited December 2015
    I... had my expectations met. I had low expectations.

    It was a fan service film - and it was a bit self-mocking which I enjoyed. The whole planet-destroyer bit where they decide to go blow it up was a bit like "yeah, the whole movie is a rip of the original - here's the plot device, whatever, moving on." There were bits of great comedy which I rather enjoyed, but it felt like it was stretching and the comedy was nearly making fun of everyone involved (including the fans).

    The problem was that the two main leads were flat as characters again - the same issue as the prequels. Raye has a backstory, but it wasn't explored or explained, only hinted at. Fin has like 1.5 identifiable characteristics.

    Ben/Kylo's "struggle" with the light had to be directly told to us. I think he literally said "I'm struggling with the light within me." Damn near it. We never see it.

    Raye's suddenly quite capable both with a lightsaber and the force with absolutely no training that we're aware of and takes on Kylo quite well.

    I recognize that this is the first of three. I expect they'll start filling it in. But I was honestly waiting for the movie to start most of the time. It was like an extended intro action sequence. I didn't feel like there was an arc or a climax to the film.

    Also, C3PO's voice seemed ... off.
  • C3PO's voice did seem off.

    Seemed more like MARVEL movie type humor so yeah, a bit tacky at times.

    I didn't mind it following the formula of the originals and being a little predictable. I appreciated the fan service.

    I thought Finn felt a little deeper than Kylo or Rey. Those two did feel flat, you are right the struggle was told, which made me want to think the character is better and more interesting, but it wasn't shown very well as you say.

    I think Rey's ability to sword fight could be attributed to her bowstaff skills. She did use like like a staff a lot (poking). Kylo must be very raw or weak (even though he was injured). Her being able to pull the lightsabre and keep Kylo out of her head with the force was definitely a stretch. Luke needed so much training.
  • I liked it over all. Had a lot of fun moments but maybe a few too many winks, they could have been a bit more subtle at least.

    Kylo - Interesting character, didn't love the acting. The allure of the light side is a neat twist.
    Rey/Fin/Poe - Cool, new characters, yay!
    Han/Chewy - Good to see them again, old Han felt a little weird.

    There was a general feeling of heightening from a New Hope with a similar plot. The death star now destroys whole systems! Look how much bigger it is now too! Luke was innately good with the force, Rey even more so!

    Kylo was also shot before the final fight so I think that's the general excuse Fin/Rey had a chance.
  • edited December 2015
    Comic book guy comment:

    I'm all for bending the laws of physics for the sake of plot. But a planet that consumes a star that then shoots the star across to a bunch of other planets in a different system and blows them up a few minutes later is like pretending that space isn't even involved. Come on.
  • It felt painful to watch
  • edited January 2016
    Guys, this is a film franchise wherein the main characters have the powers of telepathy, telekinesis, they fight with laser swords, and when they die they become omnipresent ghosts.

    Getting bent out of shape over specific violations of the laws of physics but none of the other impossibilities is a tad hypocritical, no?

    Having said that, it seems in the original script the Starkiller Base was a little more creatively written. Instead of a giant laser beam, it was supposed to absorb dark matter, which it would amass and then fire via some sort of "subspace" teleportation in to a planet's core and cause it to explode. So I mean, that's kind of awesome... but the problem is that it's not in the least cinematic, so they simplified how it worked.

    This was supposed to be a movie you could take your 10 year old kids to and enjoy along with them. Do you want to explain quantum physics in the middle of the film? Did you want the dialog to be complex enough that a thesaurus would be mandatory for the average viewer?

    It absolutely could have been changed in ways that would have made it more palatable to 35+ year old sci-fi geeks, yeah, but I think we have to accept that we don't have a monopoly on enjoying these films to the exclusion of a younger generation. I feel if even I could dial back the cynicism enough to genuinely have fun and accept these new characters, then so can everyone.

  • Overall I enjoyed the movie. But there were definitely parts where I was a little tired of the same recycled bit of Star Wars - Bad Guys have weapon of mass destruction, rebels facing insurmountable odds, manage to find the one hole in the armour that blows up a planet. That would have been my biggest issue with the whole thing. But otherwise, I liked the introduction of Rye and Finn, a storm tropper that has second thoughts of just blasting away. Rye, hidden away on a desert planet forced to scavenge for food. The jokes were pretty good, but damn I rather have seen anyone else die besides Solo, he was definitely the glue that held that cast together.

    Also, not sure what to make of the Finn Poe bromance going on? Hey I've known you for 12 seconds, can we be BFF's?

    Ohh when did the droids become clairvoyant? I mean BB was all about being able to sense the good in someone, and R2 and his sleep until the time is right?

    Still enjoyable, can't wait to see the next as the grow the story line, I laughed and smiled more than I cringed, definitely not the best Star Wars, but not the worst either.
  • edited January 2016
    Also, not sure what to make of the Finn Poe bromance going on? Hey I've known you for 12 seconds, can we be BFF's?
    I think much of that is part of the characterization of Poe, who I think is meant to come off as a bit of a freewheeling, heart-on-the-sleeve, eternal optimist kind of guy.
    Ohh when did the droids become clairvoyant? I mean BB was all about being able to sense the good in someone, and R2 and his sleep until the time is right?
    Not sure what you mean about BB, but R2 wakes up because someone utters a key phrase about "map in the imperial archives" or something to that effect.
  • BB some how knew Finn was good. Like some how he made the judgement call knowing he was sensitive with the force and also good? Maybe he was just hedging his bets that this guy might take him back to Poe? Just seemed at one point BB got to decide the fate of Finn.
  • edited January 2016
    I don't seem to recall any sort of scene where BB8 makes a clairvoyant deduction about Finn? In fact at first it's fairly hostile towards him (As he is wearing Poe's jacket and presumes he has stolen it) and tazers him for info.

    Immediately thereafter, the Tie Fighter attack leaves it obvious Finn isn't lying about running from the First Order, and in the escape he expends effort trying to keep Rey alive and BB8 safe, ultimately ending with them on a starship in space fleeing for their lives: Only after all that does the droid eventually put some level of trust in him. (Not that it had a lot of options in the situation). All things said and done, that doesn't seem very magical - trusting Finn and Rey is the best / only choice in an otherwise disastrous situation. After all, they both know what it is carrying, and haven't suggested turning it over to the First Order for a reward / leniency. That would be good enough for me even if I were a sentient soccer ball.
    Like some how he made the judgement call knowing he was sensitive with the force and also good?
    Finn isn't force sensitive, or at least, nothing has indicated he is.
  • Pretty sure Harrison Ford said fine I'll do one more but, you better kill me off.

    I can suspend disbelief but, to learn control and technique with the force powers should take time. You have to crawl before you walk and certainly shouldn't be running before you crawl.

    I like most of the characters, for some reason I just don't like BB8.

    Carrie Fisher why the plastic surgery? You looked like you were aging well10 years ago it couldn't have been worse then what was done to you. It was not as painful as looking at Meg Ryan but, close enough.
  • I liked this film less than the prequels.

    How can a Sith (or whatever Kylo Ren is supposed to be) not conmpletely destroy two people who have never touched a lightsaber before? How can Rey learn how to use the force in a matter of hours?



    The special effects were great.
  • I liked this film less than the prequels.
    You had a good run in this thread.
  • Kylo Ren isn't Sith. He was injured. It's not clear he has had any significant training either with or after Luke. Finn has combat training with swords, Rey has significant staff fighting experience (hence all the poking with the lightsaber).

    Rey using the force, no idea really. Maybe her grandfather/father/uncle Obi-wan taught her when she was a small child. Maybe she learned from his ghost/visions. Maybe she is the GOAT. Maybe, these days, movies move too fast for learning montages.
  • edited January 2016
    On top everything Awkward said, from a scripting point of view they bend over backwards to make it clear that Kylo is (a) very badly injured and despite that, (b) still not fighting them seriously. They spend all that time showing off what Chewie's bowcaster does, and then Kylo takes a direct hit from it. So its established that he should probably be dead, and he isn't, because he's wearing some sick armor / using the force to stay alive (throwback to the end of ep 3).

    Anyways, during the duels what Kylo wants isn't to kill them, he wants to demonstrate his superiority and right to Luke's / Rey's saber by soundly thrashing them about the ears. This is obvious because the second Finn gets anything close to a hit in, Kylo ends the fight instantly by rag dolling him in to a tree, something he obviously could have done at any time, but chose not to.

    While next fighting with Rey it is made very clear his aim at this moment is not to kill her but to turn her, but, he can't just force choke her out, since the film has at this point demonstrated that she's now able to resist his force powers (to what degree is unknown, but again, the man has a hole in his gut). She gets the upper hand, knocks him flat, and then they're separated. Both parties decide they'd rather not blow up with the planet and make their escapes.

    Taking the rest of the film at face value, I literally cannot come up with a legitimate criticism of this fight scene.
    How can Rey learn how to use the force in a matter of hours?
    I believe the overall franchise established that people who are strong in the force have been using it their entire lives, just without realizing it. Training is not about "learning" in the sense of learning how to program in C++, or building muscles via the repetition of lifting weights, but rather about teaching people how to be conscious of the things they've *always been capable of doing*. All of Anakin's improbable talents in Episode I are explicitly attributed to his subconscious access to the Force.

    Nearly all of Luke's training with Yoda centered on the Yoda building him up mentally to have the self-confidence and willpower to use the force, because Luke didn't believe in the Jedi at all (to start with), that the force was real, that he could be a hero, or that he would have the strength to face Vader.

    Rey has substantially more self confidence, belief and willpower than Luke exhibited at first (something Kylo seems to lack, which again plays up the reason she's able to so quickly hold her own against him, mentally). She believes in both the force and in herself, so in a moment of crisis she's able to pull off what should not be possible (Which is fundamentally the running theme of all the films).

    There, we've collectively saved the movie for you. You're welcome.
  • feels like a bandaid but, i can go with it somewhat
  • What if Rey is related to Palpatine/The Emperor or Snoke/Supreme Leader? We really don't know much about her which makes me excited to see what'll be revealed in the upcoming sequels.
  • Star Wars: Episode 8 - The Sun Base - Because a planet wasn't a big enough weapon, the First Order has resorted to put a base on Star. Not being able to fly into the star, it's got no known weaknesses, how will the rebels destroy the station this time?
  • 1) Gif - if it follows the flow of eps 4-6 we won't get The Sun Base (love this btw) until Ep 9

    2) CJ's Rey Theory (that apparently now the internet has adobted). Rey is the niece of Obi-Wan. Not daughter etc... She was found by Luke when he started to put together his new Jedi academy. When Ben turned to the dark side and became Kylo and destroyed the Jedi Academy. Luke got her off planet and gave her to Unkar Platt (from the flash back) to keep her in hiding like Obi-wan did with him and Leia. The reason she can use the force with what seems to be ease, is because she has some Jedi training at Luke's destroyed academy.

    3) Aslan, are you sure you saw the same movie as us?
  • 3) Aslan, are you sure you saw the same movie as us?
    I think so...

    I am just not sure how a supposed Master - assuming he is a Master, given he is the right hand of the new "emperor"... would not be able to use the force to defeat two people who have little or no training... Weren't there any logs or rocks or anything he could have thrown at them... Or just pulled the lightsaber out of their hand... or choked them...

    I get he was physically injured, but still...
  • I am just not sure how a supposed Master - assuming he is a Master, given he is the right hand of the new "emperor"... would not be able to use the force to defeat two people who have little or no training... Weren't there any logs or rocks or anything he could have thrown at them... Or just pulled the lightsaber out of their hand... or choked them...
    Obviously they are going to explain that in the next couple movies. I also got the sense that Kylo was never trying to kill Rey and wants more to be able to turn her. So he wants her very much alive and probably unharmed.

    So I just still don't get how you think the prequels are better movies? They were garbage, and that's coming from a guy who has found small redeeming qualities in each of them.
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